Mutual fund transfer

English Transactions
1

Hi,
not sure in the rest of the world, but here in Spain you can transfer funds from one mutual fund to another mutual fund and is never considered a sale, so you don’t have to pay taxes on the capital gains. That’s the main advantage of the mutual funds.
But I am not sure how to record this movements in PP. When I buy the first time is clearly a BUY transaction, but when I transfer (partially or totally) to another fund, I don’t want to use SELL because it is not a sell: it’s a transfer.
I have tried the option Delivery (Outbound) from the origin mutual fund and Delivery (Inbound) for the receiving mutual fund but it is reported as Realized capital gain.
Is there any option to convert from one mutual fund to another?
Thanks,
Antoni

2

Hey Antoni,

I am not sure I correctly understand your terms. Are your referring to mutual funds being the security accounts? Or is are the mutal funds acutually securities?

To transfer a security such as stocks or funds you can right click on the security and transfer it to another security account.

Otherwise I do not know what you mean.

3

Hi Harry,
thanks for the answer. Let me try to explain it with an example:

I first buy 5 “shares” of a mutual fund (Symbol MF1) at cost 1€/share. I would record that as BUY in PP with 5€
After 6 months , the share is valued at 1.5€, so my value is 7.5€ and I have made 2.5€ unrealized capital gain.

TWO DIFFERENT PATHS NOW:

  1. Buy & Sell
    If then I would like to move the investment (7.5€) into another Mutual fund (Symbol MF2) I could SELL the shares of MF1, and BUY 15 shares of MF2 at 0.5€ each. With this method, once a year I have to declare the 2.5€ realized gains, and pay the corresponding 19% Taxes of 2.5€ gains.
    In PP I can delcare it as SALE and in the report it will appear as realized capital gain. No problem.

  2. Transfer between funds
    In Spain, but also in US as well with 401 and IRA, you can TRANSFER the investments from one mutual fund to the other one without selling and and buying, just transfer. I can order the bank to transfer 7.5€ directly from MF1 to MF2. The bank already nows that 7.5€ / 5 shares of MF1 correspond to 15 shares of MF2 @ 0.5€ and transfers the deposit. Most likely they SELL MF1 and then BUY MF2 but, from a tax point of view it is not considered a sale, there is no realized capital gain and there are no taxes to be paid once a year.

And that second case is what I don’t know how to reproduce in PP: I need a transaction to “SELL” but not record it as realized capital gain but as transferred “unrealized capital gain”.

I just found another message in the forum asking for something very similar, unfortunately not very promising answer
Exchange securities within one Security Account

So two questions:

  1. Is there with the newest version any way to record the “trasnfer”?
  2. Is there any way to ask the developers to add this kind of transaction??

Vielen Dank im Voraus :wink:
Antoni

4

ad 1. No. Generally, tax stuff is out of PP’s scope; PP tries to follow the economic reality, which in this case is that the gains were realized.

ad 2. You already did. There is no magic way other than discussing it.

5

Hi Antoni,

Did you manage to solve the transfer between funds without capitalized the gains? I’m also from Spain and I’ve just done a transfer between funds a I don’t know how to register the movement in PP

Alejandra

6

Hi ALejandra,
no, I could not find the way to replicate the spanish taxation in PP. So I still write sell and buy when trasnferring. I use PP to track the portfolio, not for tax declaration purposes. Only way is to get the tax reports from the spanish banks directly and do the tax declaration based on that. During the year track the portfolio with PP by having the right amount of shares in each of the mnutual funds

Regards
Antoni

7

@Antoni

You’re doing everything right. :smiley:

PP is an asset management tool, not a tax tool. For your taxes, you should use tax tools that reflect the tax situation in your country.

CU, Laura

8

Thanks Antoni. Than, I will do the same!

Cheers,
Alejandra

9

@Alejandra_Lago_Cames @Antoni compañeros, it is in fact not posible to track “traspasos” from a spanish tax perspective. I use Delivery outbound/inbound for all suscription and reimbursement transaction, both for new money or “traspasos”. It is not much of a problem since our banks need to provide a tax report for the year. PP keeps track of the financial performance, and it does a pretty good job at that. The only distortion with mutual funds you will eventually find is that when you finally sell, all tax withholdings “retenciones” will be attributed to the sold fund, although some of the tax gains were carried over from a previous fund.

For stocks, bonds and ETFs bought/sold it is possible to track FIFO tax results under “Operaciones” tab in each security, if no special event has ocurred for that security during the holding period.

1 Like
10

hello @Crisau

So you use “Delivery outbound/inbound for all suscription and reimbursement transaction”?

Can you show me maybe an example?

Thanks!
Regards from Bar Celona!

11

I do only use delivery outbound/inbound as I only track invested money, not cash saved in my securities account. Buying/selling make an equivalent entry in the cash account: to be able to buy, I would need to deposit first and that seems too much of a hassle.

For a “traspaso”:

  • Delivery outbound original fund
  • Delivery inbound for the receiving fund.

I use Myinvestor/Inversis, so I can get all the entries from Inversis, in “Consulta de operaciones” there is a clear diferenciation of “reembolso por traspaso” and “suscripción por traspaso” for every traspaso.