Fees for crypto currency transfers

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but im on the same place with one minor difference, when moving assets between wallets, my “broker” charges a fee, how do you reflect that in PP?

if im understanding your comment correctly @SDL i have to create a Sell transaction and manually calculate for how much i “sold” each XBT and how much they charged me in EUR (the fees are in XBT as well.) and then proceed to make Buy transaction with the same numbers?

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I have a similar question, as it relates to ethereum gas fees.

If the fee is part of a buy, it seems pretty clear how to account for it: reduce the number of shares you get, & and some value to the ‘fee’ amount so the total purchase amount (USD or EUR) matches the amount you spent. Thus, the amount ‘lost’ to gas becomes fees. Likewise, for sale operations: account for the value lost to gas by inputting ‘fees.’

However, in other cases - i.e. spending ethereum on gas to send another erc20 token somewhere your ETH shares gets reduced, by an operation for an unrelated security (crypto). What’s the best way to account for that?

I was thinking of recording the gas as an Ethereum “Sell” for a price of $0.

Another option would be an Ethereum sell for the current market value, and then a ‘removal’ of currency for that same value - but that would imply realizing cap gains on the sale (aka paying tax on the sold amount), which actually results in the fee costing more, and would be inconsistent with the above: you don’t pay additional tax on the gas eth fees when buying/selling eth, it just increases your cost basis on buys & reduces your realized gain. Thus, I thought selling for $0 is the most logical. But I’d be interested in how others are dealing with this.

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And now? Do you have a good way?

Nope. I wanted to sell for $0, but the software won’t let you. It’s an issue reported on Github since Feb, but never got a reply from the developer - here: Input required for 'SubTotal' / Eingabe fehlt für Wert 'Zwischensumme' · Issue #2094 · buchen/portfolio · GitHub.

Perhaps voice your support on that issue too? Seems like a really easy fix, just needs some attention.

It will let you do an outbound delivery for 0, though.

Gotcha - super easy, then :slight_smile:

Perhaps for UI clarity, it would be better to display that info on the dialog - i.e. rather than “Input required for sub-total,” → “Sell with an amount of $0 should be input as Outbound Delivery.”

I think a solution a lot easier would be to register cash accounts using crypto as a reference and not only fiat money. We could then use every other functionalities like fees, interests and so on :slight_smile:

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Hello!

Newbie with PP here, trying to get started with it and setting my portfolio and past transactions. And here is where I am not sure how to “input” some of those transactions into PP.

How do people track fees on a certain security paid in the security itself?
(eg, ethereum transaction fees, paid in ether).
Even more, it could be an ERC-20 token (not Ether), whose transaction fees are still paid in Ether. (This is, fees paid in a security, but a different security than the transacted one).

I saw the following (old) topics already opened:

(Adding fees to a security transfer)
But not sure the best approach and/or if something better has been implemented in the meantime.

It seems initially it was proposed to do a “sell” of the security (with money going to a deposit account), followed by a “fee” on such account.
But then, doesn’t the sell impact the Purchase Price/Value and in the graph of historical prices of the security a “sell” dot will appear now, polluting it? (when there was no real sell for money, but the fee of a transaction, which is measured on the security itself).
It also requires 2 transactions on PP, which will be cumbersome if I have a bunch of txs to import from a CSV.

Then I saw the option of treating it as a single tx “Outbound Delivery”, with the fees included as the same price as the “sell”, making the total sum of the delivery 0 euros (which is not possible with a “Sell” transaction). Which means I can still track the “fees” I paid on PP and still have only 1 transaction for the fees. A “sell dot” will still appear in the graph.
What are the implications for the portfolio if done as an Outbound Delivery?

In both cases, the impact on the performance metrics seems to be the same.
Any reason to favour one or the other?
Any other potential cleaner solution?

And a final extra question / remark:
In both cases it seems the Purchase Value is impacted, reducing the value somehow (not directly with the fees amount; it seems to “close” a trade for the fee amount). Why??
I would have expected the Purchase Value to be the same due to the extra fees (meaning I had to “invest” more money to have the current securities I have).

Example:
I buy 10 shares (ether tokens) for 100 euros in total, then (and independently of the market value), I just transfer those 10 tokens to my cold wallet paying 0.1 tokens as transaction fee.
Now I have 9.9 tokens and I still have paid 100 euros for them.
So in my view, Purchase Value should be still 100 euros and Purchase Price should be the same as it does not take into account the fees (otherwise, the average price per token should have actually increased to consider the fees paid: 100/9.9 instead of 100/10).
However, the Purchase Value seems to decrease on PP after the transaction fee (either as outbound delivery or as sell+fee). Why is that? Any way to prevent that?

Also, yet another question, is there any way to have a data point “Purchase Price”, but with the fees&taxes included as well? (a kind of “real average cost per share”).

Thanks a lot in advance!

One other question, how do you introduce Airdrops and Earns or staking?